Hacker Valley Studio

Prioritizing & Proactive Cybersecurity with Richard Rushing

Richard Rushing, CISO at Motorola Mobility, brings his decades of experience to the show this week to talk about leadership, communication, and perhaps most importantly of all: prioritization. After joining Motorola through a startup acquisition, Richard has been a leader in the company and a defining example of what a CISO should be doing: simplifying the complicated. Richard talks about how his role has changed over the last 10 years and what’s next for him and for cybersecurity.

Be sure to subscribe to Hacker Valley Studio, the premiere cybersecurity podcast for cybersecurity professionals.

 

Time Code Guide:

[00:00] Ascending into a leadership role in cybersecurity & joining the Motorola team

[06:28] Defining CSO & CISO at a time when no one understood cybersecurity

[13:01] Communicating with the C-suite about cyber: best practices & tenants

[24:37] Harnessing a proactive cybersecurity mindset with prioritization

[32:13] Extending your cybersecurity career for decades

 

Sponsor Links:

Thank you to our sponsors Axonius and NetSPI for bringing this security podcast to life!

The Axonius solution correlates asset data from existing solutions to provide an always up-to-date inventory, uncover gaps, and automate action — giving IT and security teams the confidence to control complexity. Learn more at axonius.com/hackervalley

For more than 2 decades, NetSPI has helped companies discover and remediate critical security issues through its platform-driven, human-delivered security test. NetSPI is much more than a pentesting company, bringing you the most comprehensive suite of offensive security solutions. Visit netspi.com/HVM to learn more.

 

What was your experience of being a Chief Security Officer in the early 2000s?

Richard jokes that he became a part of the cyber industry before the industry was even called cybersecurity, but behind the joke lies the truth that cyber looked extremely different back then. However, no matter how much time passes, Richard is still used to the odd confused looks that come from saying he’s a CISO. People misunderstand the role, Richard explains, but at least more people than ever before understand the importance of cybersecurity.

“There were a lot of other things that you had to talk about, you had to evangelize a lot coming into this [industry] because a lot of the cybersecurity industry was brand new. People were moving around and trying to figure these things out and everybody struggled.”

 

How many times would you say you feel like you've had a new job or a new role being in the same role for over 10 years? 

Being a CISO has had its ups and downs during the 10 years Richard has spent in that role at Motorola, but the changes have been welcome and interesting. Every few years, the technology landscape changes, and with those changes in tech come massive changes in company ownership, leadership, and security. However, Richard is thankful that through these changes, his core team has stayed the same, giving him a trustworthy group to learn from.

“It's always changing, but at the same time, there are some static components. When I came on to Motorola 15 years ago and established teams, most of my team, except for a very small portion of people that retired or left, are still with me today.”

 

What are your thoughts and best practices for proactive cybersecurity?

Although “proactive cybersecurity” has become a buzzword we’re all paying attention to, Richard warns that most companies aren’t really being proactive with cybersecurity just yet. Instead, what the industry has shifted towards is prioritization. Understanding what’s important, prioritizing those aspects of a business, and knowing what you don’t have the resources to handle can make the security work you’re doing feel more proactive. 

“Why do I need to prioritize? Because you're getting more alerts than you have people to be able to handle it or technologies to be able to handle it in an automated way. So, you have to prioritize what's important.” 

 

What would you recommend people consider to extend their cybersecurity career life as long as you have?

After nearly four decades in the industry and over ten years at Motorola, Richard has been in cybersecurity longer than most modern-day practitioners. When asked about his secrets for an extended cybersecurity career, Richard reflects back on his advice around prioritization over “proactive cybersecurity”, and emphasizes the importance of community. Cybersecurity is a collaborative field, and practitioners have to stay open to learning together to succeed. 

“In the cybersecurity world, we will talk to our competitors and share what we're seeing. I think that community effort is one of the key things. You have to enjoy what you're doing, reach out and be collaborative with people. Don't be the security guy that people are scared of.”

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Links:

Keep up with our guest Richard Rushing on LinkedIn and Twitter

Learn more about Motorola Mobility on LinkedIn and the Motorola website

Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter

Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter

Purchase an HVS t-shirt at our shop

Continue the conversation by joining our Discord

Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio

Keeping Cyber Course Prices Equitable with Kenneth Ellington

Kenneth Ellington, the Senior Cybersecurity Consultant at EY and Founder of the Ellington Cyber Academy, achieves his goal of being on the Hacker Valley Studio this week. From working at Publix in college to becoming an online course instructor, Kenneth’s journey into the cyber industry has been heavily influenced by online educators like Chris and Ron. Kenneth covers barriers to entry for cyber, SOAR vs SIM, and how much further we need to go for representation in the industry.

Be sure to subscribe to Hacker Valley Studio, the premiere cybersecurity podcast for cybersecurity professionals.

 

Timecode Guide:

[00:00] Starting a cyber career at the Publix deli counter

[05:16] Fighting through introversion to become an online instructor

[11:02] Setting equitable & understandable prices for cyber courses

[15:54] Looking into the future of SOAR vs SIM to see what’s next

[19:27] Taking the chance on content creation as a new cyber professional

 

Sponsor Links:

Thank you to our sponsors Axonius and NetSPI for bringing this security podcast to life!

Life is complex. But it’s not about avoiding challenges or fearing failure. Just ask Simone Biles — the greatest gymnast of all time. Want to learn more about how Simone controls complexity? Watch her video at axonius.com/simone

For more than 2 decades, NetSPI has helped companies discover and remediate critical security issues through its platform-driven, human-delivered security test. NetSPI is much more than a pentesting company, bringing you the most comprehensive offensive security solutions. Visit netspi.com/HVM to learn more.

 

What areas do you feel confident in as a new teacher, and what do you still struggle to get your footing on? 

As someone newer to online teaching, having only done it for 2 years, Kenneth is confident in his communication skills, but still struggles with fully grasping new technology. On the bright side, Kenneth believes those technical skills come with time and practice, something he’s 100% willing to do. What helps him stand out as a strong teacher is something harder to learn— communication with others and de-escalating stressful situations for students. 

“I worked at Publix for four years in the deli, dealing with customers, and that forced me to develop those soft skills about how to talk to people and how to communicate and how to de-escalate situations. That's how I set myself apart.”

 

What are some of the things that you're thinking about when it comes to setting the pricing for your course content? 

No matter how his prices change or how skilled he becomes, Kenneth still believes in fair and equitable pricing for his course content. Considering his experience and expertise, Kenneth charges at least half of what I vendor might charge for similar content and knowledge. However, Kenneth doesn’t believe in thousands of dollars being spent on his courses, because he wants entry-level students like himself to be able to afford to learn.

“I'm very honest with myself, what my skill level is, and the value I bring towards it. Because I've been doing this for over two years, technically, I've gotten a pretty good gauge as to what people are willing to pay for and the value that I can bring.”

 

Do you have anything you’re looking to expand into with Ellington Academy? 

While SOAR and SIM are Ellington Academy's bread and butter, Kenneth is looking forward to continuing to expand his expertise and scale his content. A future upcoming goal Kenneth has is giving back to the country of Jamaica, where his family is originally from. Through providing courses or recruitment opportunities, he wants to bring cyber skills to everyone.

“From a legacy perspective, I want to leave a positive mark on this world, just to make it better than when I got here. One of my big goals, I don't know if it's gonna happen, but my family is from Jamaica, so I'm hoping I can maybe put ECA there someday.”

 

What advice would you give to a newbie in cybersecurity looking to start making content? 

Kenneth got his start at the Publix deli counter, and he understands that the beginning of someone’s cyber journey can look just like his— inexperienced but hungry for knowledge. For newcomers to the industry, Kenneth wants to reassure you that you’re never too young to teach or too old to learn. Take courses, expand your knowledge, and give back to people with less knowledge than you through accessible learning content of your own.  

“Take the opportunity to try to do something new because your knowledge is valuable, no matter how much or how little that you have. Everybody can learn something from everyone. I always try to help out however I can.”

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Links:

Keep up with our guest Kenneth Ellington on LinkedIn

Check out the Ellington Cyber Academy

Learn more about EY on LinkedIn and the EY website

Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter

Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter

Purchase an HVS t-shirt at our shop

Continue the conversation by joining our Discord

Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio

Sharing Cyber Outside of the Security Bubble with Lesley Carhart

Lesley Carhart, Director of Incident Response at Dragos, takes some time off mentoring cybersecurity practitioners, responding to OT incidents, and training in martial arts to hop on the mics this week. Named Hacker of the Year in 2020, Lesley’s impact on the industry stretches far and wide. As an incredible content creator for cybersecurity, Lesley advises listeners on how to find their niche and who to be willing to educate along the way.

Be sure to subscribe to Hacker Valley Studio, the premiere cybersecurity podcast for cybersecurity professionals.

 

Timecoded Guide:

[00:00] Giving back to the community through martial arts & cyber education

[06:13] Being excluded from the cyber industry & turning to content creation instead

[12:33] Comparing incident response in IT vs OT environments

[19:46] Dealing with post-COVID problems with the wrong OT systems online

[26:51] Finding your cyber niche & exploring education options within it

 

Sponsor Links:

Thank you to our sponsors Axonius and NetSPI for bringing this episode to life!

Life is complex. But it’s not about avoiding challenges or fearing failure. Just ask Simone Biles — the greatest gymnast of all time. Want to learn more about how Simone controls complexity? Watch her video at axonius.com/simone

For more than 2 decades, NetSPI has helped companies discover and remediate critical security issues through its platform-driven, human-delivered security test. NetSPI is much more than a pentesting company, bringing you the most comprehensive suite of offensive security solutions. Visit netspi.com/HVM to learn more.

 

What inspired you to start creating cybersecurity content?

Lesley’s cybersecurity content has vastly influenced and impacted many cyber practitioners in the industry, including Ron and Chris. Unfortunately, Lesley’s journey into content creation was inspired by the lack of mentorship they received from other professionals when they were starting out. Never wanting anyone to feel the way they did, Lesley created an online world of resources to warmly welcome and educate new practitioners.  

“It's not a really glamorous story. When I got into cybersecurity, I wanted to do digital forensics and nobody would help me, nobody would actually take me seriously and give me a shot. Everybody should have a chance to get into cybersecurity if it's something they want to do.”

 

How has teaching cyber to a general audience been appealing to you?

When not educating new cyber practitioners or tearing it up in the martial arts studio, Lesley likes to reach out to their community and give talks to audiences outside of typical tech and security groups. From churches to universities, Lesley loves meeting people outside of the cyber industry. These individuals always offer them a new perspective and a feeling of accomplishment for showing someone something new. 

“It's enjoyable to me to find other people out there who want to learn about an entirely new topic and expose themselves to its problems and how it impacts society and things like that. I appreciate that. Cybersecurity is important and it impacts everything around us all the time.”

 

In your world, where does incident response start, and where does it stop?

Like many of cyber’s most complicated concepts, the answer to where incident response starts and ends is subjective to certain resources and elements of an organization. Lesley explains that incident response has to be planned and that the planning process has to involve when to declare an incident and when to close the said incident. Without proper planning in advance, an organization is at risk for a crisis that could’ve been responded to quickly turning into an out-of-control attack. 

“There's no perfect defense against an incident, everybody's vulnerable. You do your best to mitigate and avoid having a cybersecurity incident, but there's only so much you can do. Eventually, you have to assume that you're gonna have an incident.”

 

What piece of advice do you have for anyone looking to share more knowledge and make the cyber industry better? 

Although everything in cybersecurity can seem daunting, expansive, and interesting to everyone, Lesley’s recommendation to new practitioners is to find a niche in cyber and stick to it for a while. Finding a niche doesn’t have to be permanent, but Lesley believes that niche will help you carve out extensive knowledge worth sharing and creating content around. When you discover that niche, don’t be afraid to reach out to other industry experts along the way.

“Pick an area and then find mentorship in that and try to focus for a couple of years on a particular area. You can always change your mind later on, just like degrees, just like training programs, but it's going to help you a lot to focus for a little while.”

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Links:

Keep up with our guest Lesley Carhart on LinkedIn, Twitter, and their blog

Learn more about Dragos, Inc on LinkedIn and the Dragos website

Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter

Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter

Purchase Hacker Valley swag at our shop

Continue the conversation by joining our Discord

Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio

Challenges & Opportunities in Cyber Threat Intelligence with Brian Kime

Brian Kime, VP of Intelligence Strategy and Advisory at ZeroFox, talks about all things threat intelligence this week. Brian explains why he chose threat intelligence as his focus, where he’s seen opportunities for growth in recent years, and what challenges for cyber threat intelligence lie ahead. Using his intelligence experience developed first in the US Army Special Forces, Brian delivers his argument for intelligence-driven security, instead of the marketing-driven security industry we have today.

 

Timecoded Guide:

[00:00] Diving into the VP of Intelligence Strategy role

[05:25] Learning intelligence in the Army Special Forces

[10:09] Seeing the past, present, & future of threat intelligence

[19:31] Measuring efficacy & ROI of cyber threat data

[25:18] Building your own cyber threat intelligence capabilities

 

Sponsor Links:

Thank you to our sponsors Axonius and NetSPI for bringing this episode to life!

The Axonius solution correlates asset data from existing solutions to provide an always up-to-date inventory, uncover gaps, and automate action — giving IT and security teams the confidence to control complexity. Learn more at axonius.com/hackervalley

For more than 2 decades, NetSPI has helped companies discover and remediate critical security issues through its platform-driven, human delivered security test. NetSPI is much more than a pentesting company, bringing you the most comprehensive suite of offensive security solutions. Visit netspi.com/HVM to learn more.

 

A lot of folks shift from intelligence into other areas of cyber, what inspired you to continue down the intelligence route?

After Brian graduated from Georgia Tech and the nation experienced the tragedy of 9/11, Brian felt called to enlist in the US Army Reserve. While the war in Afghanistan was not as short-lived as anyone expected, Brian found his calling in military intelligence, where he was inspired to put his experiences in IT and intelligence together. It turns out that fusion already existed in the form of cyber threat intelligence, and Brian wanted to focus on that completely.

“I want to bring all these things together and really start pushing our customers and pushing the security community in general towards more intelligence-driven security. Mostly, what I see even today still just feels like marketing-driven security.”

 

Where are we today with threat intelligence technology, in terms of challenges and opportunities?

Brian believes we’re already in a really exciting place today in terms of threat intelligence technology. What feels especially opportune for him at the moment includes opportunities and technology that involve internal data from previous threats, freely available external data from sources like blogs, and third-party vendors. However, the challenges facing threat intelligence now involve how to make that technology available for small and medium businesses.

“That's what I would love to see become the standard, that big corporations incorporate threat intelligence to the level that they can start to actually extend that value into their supply chain. That way, the whole system becomes more resilient, more secure.”

 

How does a security team measure the efficacy and ROI of intelligence?

In Brian’s opinion, most cybersecurity practitioners don't track the ROI of their intelligence vendors, or they fail to measure intelligence for effectiveness. The metrics cyber teams should focus on include number of new detections created, incidents discovered, adversary dwell time, and improved security decision making. Unfortunately, improved decision making is the hardest to measure because it requires practitioner feedback.

“At the end of the day, if stakeholders are making security decisions based on intelligence that I'm providing, that's a really good measure of effectiveness. All the security decisions that were influenced by threat intelligence, that's what we're going for.” 

 

When you don't have an intelligence capability and you want to create one, what is typically the first thing that an intelligence team member does?

If you’re intending to collect data from your customers (which almost every company out there is trying to do), then Brian believes that privacy and security need to be considered from the start. Critical security controls and a solid framework are key to early success for even the smallest security team. The best place to start? Software and hardware inventory. If you don’t know what you have, you won’t be able to secure your technology properly. 

“At the beginning of the critical security controls, it's always software and hardware inventory. If I don't know what I have, then I really can't do anything well in security. I can't do incident response because I don't know where my data is.”

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Links:

Keep up with our guest Brian Kime on LinkedIn and Twitter

Learn more about ZeroFox on LinkedIn and the ZeroFox website

Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter

Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter

Purchase a HVS t-shirt at our shop

Continue the conversation by joining our Discord

Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio

Hiring the Next Fractional CISO with Michael Piacente

Michael Piacente, Managing Partner & Cofounder at Hitch Partners, answers the essential question on many cybersecurity professionals’ minds: Where do CISOs find CISO jobs? As it turns out, Michael helps many cybersecurity teams find their perfect CISO match with the assistance of his own team at Hitch Partners. In this episode, Michael clarifies what the role of a CISO really is, explains the compensation and benefits, and reveals the many responsibilities a CISO may take on during their team in the role.

 

Timecoded Guide:

[00:00] Defining the role of CISO & finding the right homes for each CISO

[05:21] VCISO & fractional CISO as an alternative to a full-time CISO

[11:49] CISO annual income, benefits, & non-monetary incentives

[16:37] Explaining additional responsibilities & tasks taken on by the CISO

[25:11] Giving advice to future CISOs looking for the next cyber executive opportunity

 

Sponsor Links:

Thank you to our sponsor Axonius and NetSPIfor bringing this episode to life!

The Axonius solution correlates asset data from existing solutions to provide an always up-to-date inventory, uncover gaps, and automate action — giving IT and security teams the confidence to control complexity. Learn more at axonius.com/hackervalley

For more than 2 decades, NetSPI has helped companies discover and remediate critical security issues through its platform-driven, human delivered security test. NetSPI is much more than a pentesting company, bringing you the most comprehensive suite of offensive security solutions. Visit netspi.com/HVM to learn more.

 

In your own definition and experience, what is a CISO?

Although there’s many definitions of the role, Michael clarifies that defining CISO should always include being an executive. To have a CISO who makes a positive impact and fulfills an organization’s needs, that CISO has to be properly placed, properly sponsored, and be in an environment where they have the proper reporting processes. Michael also believes the CISO should always be looking over their shoulder to be diligent of the next threat.

“In my version of it, a CISO is the executive— and that's the key term here— that has been properly placed, properly sponsored to handle all of the business information and data risk policy execution and operations in the company.”

 

What is the difference between a fractional CISO and a VCISO?

In Michael’s opinion, a VCISO (virtual CISO) and fractional CISO can be used interchangeably in a situation where a company does not need a full-time CISO executive. Unless they’re looking to support a strong security program, Michael understands that many companies don’t need a full-time CISO in order to be successful. A VCISO makes an impact on an organization’s security without being an overwhelming role in a smaller organization.

“Bringing in your starter package to implement the baseline or foundational building blocks of what will become a security program, in the form of a consultant or consulting firm, is often a wiser choice than going in building a security program around a full-time CISO role.”

 

Are there different types of CISOs, and have those types changed over time?

Previously, Michael defined 3 different types of CISOs in his search for CISOs with Hitch Partners. However, a fourth type has emerged in recent years: the BISO, or Field CISO. This fourth type joins the ranks alongside other impactful CISO types, including the client (or governance) facing CISO, highly technical CISO, the IT-focused CISO, and now, our fourth type, the BISO, who focuses on the business side of the risk.

“It's amazing that all of our CISO searches contain all these different types of CISOs. The fun part of that we get to figure out is: What's the priority [for the role]? What's the order? What does everyone in the organization think the priority should be?” 

 

How would you direct someone to take that first step after realizing they want to be a CISO?

Discovering the CISO role exists and being the right person for the role is an important distinction, and Michael encourages potential CISOs to take some time to research the job before getting involved in a job search. However, once someone knows they want to be a CISO, Michael advises finding a CISO mentor and diving into a passion. Each type of CISO needs an expertise and passion to propel them into the superpower status needed to be a CISO. 

“I think it’s about finding a passion. I'm a big believer that you just have to know where your superpower is, or what your superpower wants to be. In other words, that thing that's passionate to you, that you probably know better than 99% of the population out there.”

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Links:

Keep up with our guest Michael Piacente on LinkedIn

Learn more about Hitch Partners on their website

Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter

Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter

Purchase a HVS t-shirt at our shop

Continue the conversation by joining our Discord

Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio