Welcome back to the show! Hacker Valley Studio podcast features Host Ron Eddings, as he explores the world of cybersecurity through the eyes of professionals in the industry. We cover everything from inspirational real-life stories in tech, to highlighting influential cybersecurity companies, and we do so in a fun and enthusiastic way. We’re making cybersecurity accessible, creating a whole new form of entertainment: cybertainment.
Episodes
Tuesday Nov 15, 2022
Tuesday Nov 15, 2022
Brian Kime, VP of Intelligence Strategy and Advisory at ZeroFox, talks about all things threat intelligence this week. Brian explains why he chose threat intelligence as his focus, where he’s seen opportunities for growth in recent years, and what challenges for cyber threat intelligence lie ahead. Using his intelligence experience developed first in the US Army Special Forces, Brian delivers his argument for intelligence-driven security, instead of the marketing-driven security industry we have today.
Timecoded Guide:
[00:00] Diving into the VP of Intelligence Strategy role
[05:25] Learning intelligence in the Army Special Forces
[10:09] Seeing the past, present, & future of threat intelligence
[19:31] Measuring efficacy & ROI of cyber threat data
[25:18] Building your own cyber threat intelligence capabilities
Sponsor Links:
Thank you to our sponsors Axonius and NetSPI for bringing this episode to life!
The Axonius solution correlates asset data from existing solutions to provide an always up-to-date inventory, uncover gaps, and automate action — giving IT and security teams the confidence to control complexity. Learn more at axonius.com/hackervalley
For more than 2 decades, NetSPI has helped companies discover and remediate critical security issues through its platform-driven, human delivered security test. NetSPI is much more than a pentesting company, bringing you the most comprehensive suite of offensive security solutions. Visit netspi.com/HVM to learn more.
A lot of folks shift from intelligence into other areas of cyber, what inspired you to continue down the intelligence route?
After Brian graduated from Georgia Tech and the nation experienced the tragedy of 9/11, Brian felt called to enlist in the US Army Reserve. While the war in Afghanistan was not as short-lived as anyone expected, Brian found his calling in military intelligence, where he was inspired to put his experiences in IT and intelligence together. It turns out that fusion already existed in the form of cyber threat intelligence, and Brian wanted to focus on that completely.
“I want to bring all these things together and really start pushing our customers and pushing the security community in general towards more intelligence-driven security. Mostly, what I see even today still just feels like marketing-driven security.”
Where are we today with threat intelligence technology, in terms of challenges and opportunities?
Brian believes we’re already in a really exciting place today in terms of threat intelligence technology. What feels especially opportune for him at the moment includes opportunities and technology that involve internal data from previous threats, freely available external data from sources like blogs, and third-party vendors. However, the challenges facing threat intelligence now involve how to make that technology available for small and medium businesses.
“That's what I would love to see become the standard, that big corporations incorporate threat intelligence to the level that they can start to actually extend that value into their supply chain. That way, the whole system becomes more resilient, more secure.”
How does a security team measure the efficacy and ROI of intelligence?
In Brian’s opinion, most cybersecurity practitioners don't track the ROI of their intelligence vendors, or they fail to measure intelligence for effectiveness. The metrics cyber teams should focus on include number of new detections created, incidents discovered, adversary dwell time, and improved security decision making. Unfortunately, improved decision making is the hardest to measure because it requires practitioner feedback.
“At the end of the day, if stakeholders are making security decisions based on intelligence that I'm providing, that's a really good measure of effectiveness. All the security decisions that were influenced by threat intelligence, that's what we're going for.”
When you don't have an intelligence capability and you want to create one, what is typically the first thing that an intelligence team member does?
If you’re intending to collect data from your customers (which almost every company out there is trying to do), then Brian believes that privacy and security need to be considered from the start. Critical security controls and a solid framework are key to early success for even the smallest security team. The best place to start? Software and hardware inventory. If you don’t know what you have, you won’t be able to secure your technology properly.
“At the beginning of the critical security controls, it's always software and hardware inventory. If I don't know what I have, then I really can't do anything well in security. I can't do incident response because I don't know where my data is.”
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Links:
Keep up with our guest Brian Kime on LinkedIn and Twitter
Learn more about ZeroFox on LinkedIn and the ZeroFox website
Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter
Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter
Purchase a HVS t-shirt at our shop
Continue the conversation by joining our Discord
Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio
Friday Nov 11, 2022
Friday Nov 11, 2022
Michael Piacente, Managing Partner & Cofounder at Hitch Partners, answers the essential question on many cybersecurity professionals’ minds: Where do CISOs find CISO jobs? As it turns out, Michael helps many cybersecurity teams find their perfect CISO match with the assistance of his own team at Hitch Partners. In this episode, Michael clarifies what the role of a CISO really is, explains the compensation and benefits, and reveals the many responsibilities a CISO may take on during their team in the role.
Timecoded Guide:
[00:00] Defining the role of CISO & finding the right homes for each CISO
[05:21] VCISO & fractional CISO as an alternative to a full-time CISO
[11:49] CISO annual income, benefits, & non-monetary incentives
[16:37] Explaining additional responsibilities & tasks taken on by the CISO
[25:11] Giving advice to future CISOs looking for the next cyber executive opportunity
Sponsor Links:
Thank you to our sponsor Axonius and NetSPIfor bringing this episode to life!
The Axonius solution correlates asset data from existing solutions to provide an always up-to-date inventory, uncover gaps, and automate action — giving IT and security teams the confidence to control complexity. Learn more at axonius.com/hackervalley
For more than 2 decades, NetSPI has helped companies discover and remediate critical security issues through its platform-driven, human delivered security test. NetSPI is much more than a pentesting company, bringing you the most comprehensive suite of offensive security solutions. Visit netspi.com/HVM to learn more.
In your own definition and experience, what is a CISO?
Although there’s many definitions of the role, Michael clarifies that defining CISO should always include being an executive. To have a CISO who makes a positive impact and fulfills an organization’s needs, that CISO has to be properly placed, properly sponsored, and be in an environment where they have the proper reporting processes. Michael also believes the CISO should always be looking over their shoulder to be diligent of the next threat.
“In my version of it, a CISO is the executive— and that's the key term here— that has been properly placed, properly sponsored to handle all of the business information and data risk policy execution and operations in the company.”
What is the difference between a fractional CISO and a VCISO?
In Michael’s opinion, a VCISO (virtual CISO) and fractional CISO can be used interchangeably in a situation where a company does not need a full-time CISO executive. Unless they’re looking to support a strong security program, Michael understands that many companies don’t need a full-time CISO in order to be successful. A VCISO makes an impact on an organization’s security without being an overwhelming role in a smaller organization.
“Bringing in your starter package to implement the baseline or foundational building blocks of what will become a security program, in the form of a consultant or consulting firm, is often a wiser choice than going in building a security program around a full-time CISO role.”
Are there different types of CISOs, and have those types changed over time?
Previously, Michael defined 3 different types of CISOs in his search for CISOs with Hitch Partners. However, a fourth type has emerged in recent years: the BISO, or Field CISO. This fourth type joins the ranks alongside other impactful CISO types, including the client (or governance) facing CISO, highly technical CISO, the IT-focused CISO, and now, our fourth type, the BISO, who focuses on the business side of the risk.
“It's amazing that all of our CISO searches contain all these different types of CISOs. The fun part of that we get to figure out is: What's the priority [for the role]? What's the order? What does everyone in the organization think the priority should be?”
How would you direct someone to take that first step after realizing they want to be a CISO?
Discovering the CISO role exists and being the right person for the role is an important distinction, and Michael encourages potential CISOs to take some time to research the job before getting involved in a job search. However, once someone knows they want to be a CISO, Michael advises finding a CISO mentor and diving into a passion. Each type of CISO needs an expertise and passion to propel them into the superpower status needed to be a CISO.
“I think it’s about finding a passion. I'm a big believer that you just have to know where your superpower is, or what your superpower wants to be. In other words, that thing that's passionate to you, that you probably know better than 99% of the population out there.”
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Links:
Keep up with our guest Michael Piacente on LinkedIn
Learn more about Hitch Partners on their website
Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter
Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter
Purchase a HVS t-shirt at our shop
Continue the conversation by joining our Discord
Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio
Wednesday Nov 09, 2022
Wednesday Nov 09, 2022
Hacker Valley: On the Road is a curated collection of conversations that Chris and Ron have had during conferences and events around the globe. In this episode, NTT’s Dirk Hodgson, Director of Cybersecurity, and Adam Green, Senior Cybersecurity Executive, speak with the Hacker Valley team at CyberCon in Melbourne, Australia. Dirk and Adam cover the intersection of their roles at NTT, their experiences at conferences like RSA, their country’s cybersecurity industry, and their team’s cultivated trust with clients.
Timecoded Guide:
[00:00] Reuniting at CyberCon after years of COVID limiting security conferences
[06:30] Differentiating Australia’s cybersecurity industry from the rest of the world
[10:48] Watching current cyber trends with CMMC & the Essential 8 frameworks
[25:41] Creating interpersonal communication in a technology-driven industry
[34:58] Building trust by knowing your clients & your adversaries equally
Sponsor Links:
Thank you to our sponsor Axonius for bringing this episode to life!
Life is complex. But it’s not about avoiding challenges or fearing failure. Just ask Simone Biles — the greatest gymnast of all time. Want to learn more about how Simone controls complexity? Watch her video at axonius.com/simone
How are Australian cybersecurity practitioners different from the rest of the world?
According to Adam, the past 3 years have led to a massive shift in maturity for Australia’s cybersecurity industry. Previously, Australia relied on its physical isolation as a country as a means of security, but breaches have become more high profile and more impactful for Australian businesses in recent years. Now, Adam is pleased to see there be a greater understanding beyond the 101 of cybersecurity and more collaboration with security teams.
“Three years ago, we used to say Australia was 5 years behind the rest of the world [in cybersecurity]. We used to think, because of proximity to the rest of the world, we were pretty safe, but it's definitely become more of a professional approach to security now.” — Adam
How do your roles as Director and Executive work together at NTT?
For Dirk, cybersecurity is the ultimate team sport— and Adam is an impactful element to his cybersecurity team. While Adam often focuses on strategic planning through his background as a practitioner, Dirk enjoys how his business-driven perspective contrasts with Adam and with other members of the team. With a variety of experiences and perspectives in the room, NTT can cover issues from all sides, instead of falling victim to tunnel vision.
“Adam is the person on the team, who's great at that scenario planning piece. ‘Here are the things that are gonna go wrong.’ Whereas myself and a couple of the other people on the team, look at that go, ‘What's that going to cost the organization?’” —Dirk
Where are the strengths and weaknesses in communication in cybersecurity?
Just like Dirk’s thoughts about cybersecurity being a team sport, Adam believes that you have to cultivate a team member-like trust with your clients. The client in an initial conversation might seem defensive of your advice or critical of your actions. However, Adam explains that establishing credibility, especially in the business-focused cyber industry in Australia, goes a long way to creating the opportunity for more casual conversations down the line.
“What we find is, in Australia in particular, it's about not just the company, but you as an individual. Do you have my back? Can I trust you? If I don't like you, will you at least mitigate my risk for me? You have to establish credibility real fast.” —Adam
What advice would you give to someone interested in cultivating more trust between clients and their team?
Dirk loves a good James Bond villain, but the average hacker attacking the average business is nothing like the movies. Establishing trust with clients starts with not only understanding what they need, Dirk explains, but also knowing the most likely threats beyond the showstopping Blackhats of media fame. Being able to explain to and protect clients from the most common threats keeps their data safest and strengthens their trust in your team.
“I think it's about making sure that you know what the worst case scenario is, what the most dangerous course of action that the attacker or a potential attacker could follow, but also, being able to talk credibly about what's the most likely threat.” —Dirk
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Links:
Keep up with our guest Dirk Hodgson on LinkedIn
Keep up with our guest Adam Green on LinkedIn
Learn more about NTT on LinkedIn and the NTT website
Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter
Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter
Purchase a HVS t-shirt at our shop
Continue the conversation by joining our Discord
Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio
Tuesday Nov 08, 2022
Tuesday Nov 08, 2022
Hacker Valley: On the Road is a curated collection of conversations that Chris and Ron have had during conferences and events around the globe. In this episode, Cloud Security Podcast’s Ashish Rajan and Shilpi Bhattacharjee speak with the Hacker Valley team at AISA CyberCon in Melbourne, Australia. Ashish and Shilpi discuss their respective talks on supply chain security and zero trust technology, SBOMs, and keynote speakers at this year’s Cybercon worth noting for the audience at home.
Timecoded Guide:
[00:00] Connecting & conversing at a cyber conference post-COVID
[06:50] Breaking down Shilpi’s presentation on supply chain threats & attacks
[11:45] Understanding the paradoxes & limitations of zero trust with Ashish’s talk
[26:13] Defining & explaining SBOM, or Software Bill of Materials
[33:16] Noticing key conversations & trends for those who didn’t attend AISA Cybercon
Sponsor Links:
Thank you to our sponsor Axonius for bringing this episode to life!
The Axonius solution correlates asset data from existing solutions to provide an always up-to-date inventory, uncover gaps, and automate action — giving IT and security teams the confidence to control complexity. Learn more at axonius.com/hackervalley
Shilpi, can you talk about the idea behind the talk you had at CyberCon?
The inspiration behind Shilpi’s conference talk was supply chain issues. Titling her talk, “Who’s Protecting Your Software in Supply Chain,” Shilpi hoped to further educate and advocate for security in the supply chain process. An estimated one in two companies will experience a supply chain attack in the coming years. Instead of fearing such a statistic, Shilpi hopes her talk inspired further security action to protect our supply chains.
“One staggering fact that I read is that one in every two companies is going to have some sort of a supply chain attack in the next three years. So, who's going to look after the supply chain? Is it going to be the organization? Is it going to be your third-party vendors?” —Shilpi
Ashish, what about your talk at Cybercon?
In contrast, Ashish’s talk was about the triple paradox of zero trust. When talking about and implementing zero trust, Ashish realized many companies don’t implement the cultural changes needed for zero trust and/or only talk about zero trust as a technology process. Zero trust has numerous layers beyond technology, and requires time and major changes in culture and technology to implement in most companies.
“I feel bad for bashing on finance, marketing, and HR teams. They're all smart people, but if you're going to add four or five layers of security for them, they almost always say, ‘I just want to do my job. I don't really care about this. It's your job to do security.’” —Ashish
Where would you recommend starting when it comes to trying to implement the ideas in your respective talks?
When push comes to shove about where cyber companies can start first with supply chain and zero trust, Ashish and Shilpi agree that companies have to discuss business priorities. When company leaders can take the opportunity to look at and understand their cyber hygiene, the next steps might look very different from another company’s tactics. Knowing what a business has is the foundational piece that impacts any new process in cyber.
“If I were to go back to the first principle of what we do with cybersecurity professionals, one of the biggest assets that we're all trying to protect is data. You can't protect what you can't see, that's the foundational piece.” —Ashish
For anyone that wasn't able to make the conference, what is one thing that you would want to share with the audience at home?
There were a lot of conversations taking place at Cybercon this year. Ashish wants the audience at home to know that cloud native, zero trust, supply chain, and leadership positions like CISOs were the main themes in many talks, panels, and conversations. Shilpi wants those who couldn’t attend to watch out for more talks and conversations about cyber from those outside of the industry to understand that the issues impacting cyber influence the world.
“I think there's that interest about cybersecurity being more than just a cybersecurity problem. Cybersecurity is not just a technical problem, it's a societal problem, a cultural problem. I very much agree, because a lot of the things that we're dealing with impacts everyone.” —Shilpi
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Links:
Keep up with our guest Ashish Rajan on LinkedIn
Keep up with our guest Shilpi Bhattacharjee on LinkedIn
Listen to Ashish and Shilpi’s Cloud Security Podcast
Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter
Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter
Purchase a HVS t-shirt at our shop
Continue the conversation by joining our Discord
Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio
Monday Nov 07, 2022
Monday Nov 07, 2022
Alton Johnson, Founder and Principal Security Consultant at Vonahi Security, automates his way out of his pen testing job in this week’s episode. An AOl hacking gone wild got Alton into defensive cybersecurity years ago, and now, as the Founder of Vonahi, Alton advocates for automation and efficiency in the pen testing process. Alton talks about his connection to defensive over offensive, customizing a pen test report to your audience, and finding that sweet spot between practitioner and entrepreneur.
Timecoded Guide:
[00:00] Learning the importance of automation in defensive cyber
[07:48] Connecting with automation & defensive cybersecurity over offensive
[12:01] Showing the results that matter to the right people in a pen test report
[15:27] Prioritizing exploitations in the world of vulnerability assessments
[21:59] Maintaining the cyber practitioner & the entrepreneurial side of Vonahi
Sponsor Links:
Thank you to our sponsors Axonius and NetSPI for bringing this episode to life!
The Axonius solution correlates asset data from existing solutions to provide an always up-to-date inventory, uncover gaps, and automate action — giving IT and security teams the confidence to control complexity. Learn more at axonius.com/hackervalley
For more than 2 decades, NetSPI has helped companies discover and remediate critical security issues through its platform-driven, human delivered security test. NetSPI is much more than a pentesting company, bringing you the most comprehensive suite of offensive security solutions. Visit netspi.com/HVM to learn more.
How have you seen automation change yourself and your role?
As a penetration tester, Alton explains that time is often not on his side. There’s a limited amount of time to do an assessment, and the measure of a good pen tester is often determined by fast, high quality reporting. Automating the repetitive tasks of pen testing not only saves time, but Alton believes it genuinely changes the role into something much more efficient, high value, and successful.
“Automation obviously plays a huge part in growing in the career too, because the more you can do, the more value you can provide, and the faster you can provide that value makes you a better pentester.”
How do you convey the story of a red team engagement in different ways so that message is received by everyone in the company?
At Vonahi Security, Alton’s team separates pen testing reports into an executive summary and a technical report. The executive summary is high level, demonstrating the impact and severity of what was discovered from a business point of view. Many business executives don’t need the technical play by play, which is why that is saved for the technical report. The technical report acts as a scene by scene story of what was done and how to technically fix it.
“We separate the two conversations. Here's what we did at a high level to anyone that doesn't really care about the technical stuff, but only cares about how it impacts the business, and then, for the person that has to fix the issues, here's everything that they would need.”
What would you tell the newer generation of cybersecurity practitioners about the offensive side?
When Alton first started his cybersecurity journey, he was very into hacking and coding. That passion for code has served him well, allowing him to become successful enough to start his own business with Vonahi. For the younger generation of cyber practitioners, Alton recommends not skipping that coding education. As technically advanced and automated as cybersecurity tools are, practitioners should be prepared to code when something breaks or doesn’t work as intended.
“I think coding is extremely valuable, because there's going to be many times that tools that you use don't work and you have to have the experience and knowledge to basically fix those problems with coding.”
What have you learned over the past few years that has helped you to maintain both the technical and business side of Vonahi? 21
Efficiency is the name of the game for Vonahi— and it’s the one thing that has allowed Alton to remain in a hands-on pen testing role while still being a business owner. Keeping it efficient is more than just technology and automation. Alton believes his success is a direct result of the efficient technology around him and the hardworking, intelligent, efficient team members working with him at Vonahi.
“It is really just about efficiency. We look to all these other leaders, but for me, I like to learn from other people's failures. I don't want to take the same growth processes as the person who failed and didn't do well.”
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Links:
Keep up with our guest Alton Johnson on LinkedIn and his personal website
Learn more about Vonahi Security on LinkedIn and the Vonahi Security website
Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter
Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter
Purchase a HVS t-shirt at our shop
Continue the conversation by joining our Discord
Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio