Hacker Valley Studio

People-Focused Leadership in Cybersecurity with Cody Wass

Cody Wass, VP of Services at NetSPI, brings his near-decade of experience to the pod to talk about longevity, development, and leadership. It’s no secret that cybersecurity is in need of people. Cody’s journey from intern to VP at NetSPI has shown him the importance of training employees, creating opportunities for new graduates, and engaging teams effectively, both virtually and in person. In this episode, Cody provides the roadmap toward intentional employee investment in the ever-changing cyber industry.

Be sure to subscribe to Hacker Valley Studio, the premiere cybersecurity podcast for cybersecurity professionals.

 

Timecoded Guide:

[00:00] Cyber career longevity from NetSPI intern to VP 

[07:51] Putting people before process & technology at NetSPI

[15:33] Collaboration as the foundation of the cybersecurity industry

[18:13] Understanding cyber’s entry-level position problem

[24:12] Investing intentionally in employee development  

 

Sponsor Links:

Thank you to our sponsor NetSPI for bringing this security podcast to life!

For more than 2 decades, NetSPI has helped companies discover and remediate critical security issues through its platform-driven, human-delivered security test. NetSPI is much more than a pentesting company, bringing you the most comprehensive suite of offensive security solutions. Visit netspi.com/HVM to learn more.

Detect and protect the unknown with NetSPI's new and free attack surface management scan! Check it out now at asm.netspi.com/ 

 

You’ve been at NetSPI for 9 years. When you think about a rewarding feeling in your journey at the company, what comes to mind?

Starting his journey at NetSPI as an intern, Cody has had the rare but impactful opportunity to grow alongside the company. Now, as VP of Services, looks back at the lives he’s impacted himself and the opportunities he’s had to see others grow. Employee development is a huge part of NetSPI’s success. Cody is proud to have seen newcomers join his team and become amazing practitioners over the years.  

“It's really rewarding seeing people come into this industry as a fresh face with a specific skill set, to watch them grow over and see them really spread their wings, and come out the other side stronger, better, and having a skill set that you never would have imagined day one.”

 

NetSPI has a very unique culture and philosophy about balancing that duality between technology and people. Could you tell us a little bit about that? 

People come first, before process and technology, at NetSPI. While all three elements of this sacred cyber trifecta are important, Cody and his team believe that the balance should focus on making the lives, skills, and experiences of the people at NetSPI better. Process should be taught to the people, with a focus on prosperity and consistency. Technology should be implemented intelligently, with proper training and time given to the people for the best results. 

“NetSPI’s differentiator is our people, first and foremost, and then, our process and our technology. We have a ton of really cool things we're doing with tech, but the focus is always on: How can you use that tech to make a person more efficient at their job?”

 

How important is collaboration for you and your team at NetSPI?

Collaboration is built into the DNA of NetSPI, from how employees are trained to how NetSPI interacts with the industry around them. Cybersecurity thrives when teams, practitioners, and organizations work together for the sake of the greater good. Even though COVID and remote workers have increased the virtual footprint of NetSPI, Cody still emphasizes the importance of communication and collaboration with his team and to practitioners around the world. 

“This industry we work in is super interesting. It'll never be finished; you're never going to learn everything there is about security and be able to call it done. We're far past the point where one person is going to be the expert of everything in cybersecurity.”

 

For anyone in a cybersecurity leadership position who wants to start to really invest in their people, what would be your recommendation on where to start?

Intentionality is vital for the success of any leader trying to invest in their employees. Cody explains that it’s one thing for leaders to want to invest in training and professional development opportunities for their team, but another thing entirely when it comes to implementation. If a leader isn’t intentional, they won’t have clear goals for investment and will risk letting implementation fall to the wayside for the sake of a budgetary line. 

“Yes, we are going to be making this investment. It is going to cost us. It will cost us time, it will cost us money, but we are committed to making that investment because we know the payoff in 12 months or 18 months or 24 months is going to ultimately be worth it.”

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Links:

Keep up with our guest Cody Wass on LinkedIn

Learn more about NetSPI on LinkedIn and the NetSPI website

Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter

Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter

Purchase an HVS t-shirt at our shop

Continue the conversation by joining our Discord

Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio

Improv-ing Your Way to Better Vendor Meetings With Brad Liggett

Brad Liggett, CTI Intel Engineer Manager at Cybersixgill, puts on his improv hat and joins the pod ready for anything. After COVID pressed pause on daily life, Brad kept himself sane and gained some new skills by returning to his improv roots (a hobby he had in the ‘90s) and taking up Dungeons & Dragons. In this episode, Brad covers the importance of improv skills in the professional world, the opportunities to add elements of gaming into cyber, and advice for practitioners looking to be more agile.

Be sure to subscribe to Hacker Valley Studio, the premiere cybersecurity podcast for cybersecurity professionals.

 

Timecoded Guide:

[00:00] Introducing the unique combination of improv & cybersecurity

[05:57] Being a life-long learner in cybersecurity & in improv groups

[13:20] Practicing improvisational skills for cybersecurity customer conversations  

[18:17] Bringing in games & elements of play into cybersecurity environments

[24:38] Advice for a more agile, improvisational tomorrow

 

Sponsor Links:

Thank you to our sponsors Axonius and NetSPI for bringing this episode to life!

Life is complex. But it’s not about avoiding challenges or fearing failure. Just ask Simone Biles — the greatest gymnast of all time. Want to learn more about how Simone controls complexity? Watch her video at axonius.com/simone

For more than 2 decades, NetSPI has helped companies discover and remediate critical security issues through its platform-driven, human-delivered security test. NetSPI is much more than a pentesting company, bringing you the most comprehensive suite of offensive security solutions. Visit netspi.com/HVM to learn more.

 

Is there a skill that you called upon during an interaction with a customer where you really leaned on your improv muscle? 

Improv often involves one phrase that Brad believes other industries should incorporate, too: “Yes, and.” In cybersecurity, Brad leans heavily on the “Yes, and,” phrase because it encourages conversations to move forward authentically. Meetings aren’t successful when customers and clients feel uncomfortable and unengaged. Being able to think on his feet and prepare for changes makes Brad a stronger, more agile practitioner and communicator.

“The whole concept of moving the meeting forward and making sure that there are no uncomfortable silences. Be prepared, have an idea of what you want to talk about, but inevitably, the client you're talking to, everyone's going to be unique.”

 

What do you think is the glue that holds your interests in cyber and improv together?

Being a life-long learner is something extremely important and valuable for Brad. For improv, research on the latest media, memes, and movies influences his work and motivates him to stay up-to-date and be involved in some fun research. Cybersecurity is the same way. Brad believes to be the best practitioner and leader for his team, he needs to be knowledgeable about vendors, threats, products, and all things new in the industry.

“You always have to be reading, you always have to be aware of what's going on in the environment out there in the world, so that as those things come up, at least you can somewhat talk to them and start to put those pieces together.”

 

What has been your experience with bringing an element of play into cyber?

Cybersecurity can’t be all work and no play. Instead, Brad believes that cybersecurity teams should continue to prioritize the gamification of training processes, as well as just letting their teams have a little fun. Sometimes, to build a strong, trusting team, there needs to be an outside outlet for problem-solving, puzzling, and creativity. Brad even brought his team at Cybersixgill to a Meow Wolf exhibition this year for that same team-building reason. 

“We work hard, but we also should make sure that we play, and not only just do that individually, but even as teams, especially now. It's not always going to be about the training aspect, you also have to take that time to bring that team together.”

 

What is a piece of wisdom that people could take with them to work tomorrow to make them more agile and improvisational?

When it comes to agility and improvisational skills, you have to have a strong foundation to build off of. For Brad, taking time for himself and understanding when and how he learns best has been vital to his success. Listening to podcasts at the gym, reading something new at hotels, and getting a good night’s sleep are all little things that help Brad consistently become more agile and improvisational at work. 

“For me, it’s always having some sacred time at the end of the day. There's no TV in my bedroom, and my phone is telling me around 8:30, ‘Hey, it's wind down time,’ and that's when I'm getting in the mode for sleep, and then making sure I've got a good night's sleep.”

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Links:

Keep up with our guest Brad Liggett on LinkedIn and Twitter

Learn more about Cybersixgill on LinkedIn and the Cybersixgill website

Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter

Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter

Purchase an HVS t-shirt at our shop

Continue the conversation by joining our Discord

Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio

Prioritizing & Proactive Cybersecurity with Richard Rushing

Richard Rushing, CISO at Motorola Mobility, brings his decades of experience to the show this week to talk about leadership, communication, and perhaps most importantly of all: prioritization. After joining Motorola through a startup acquisition, Richard has been a leader in the company and a defining example of what a CISO should be doing: simplifying the complicated. Richard talks about how his role has changed over the last 10 years and what’s next for him and for cybersecurity.

Be sure to subscribe to Hacker Valley Studio, the premiere cybersecurity podcast for cybersecurity professionals.

 

Time Code Guide:

[00:00] Ascending into a leadership role in cybersecurity & joining the Motorola team

[06:28] Defining CSO & CISO at a time when no one understood cybersecurity

[13:01] Communicating with the C-suite about cyber: best practices & tenants

[24:37] Harnessing a proactive cybersecurity mindset with prioritization

[32:13] Extending your cybersecurity career for decades

 

Sponsor Links:

Thank you to our sponsors Axonius and NetSPI for bringing this security podcast to life!

The Axonius solution correlates asset data from existing solutions to provide an always up-to-date inventory, uncover gaps, and automate action — giving IT and security teams the confidence to control complexity. Learn more at axonius.com/hackervalley

For more than 2 decades, NetSPI has helped companies discover and remediate critical security issues through its platform-driven, human-delivered security test. NetSPI is much more than a pentesting company, bringing you the most comprehensive suite of offensive security solutions. Visit netspi.com/HVM to learn more.

 

What was your experience of being a Chief Security Officer in the early 2000s?

Richard jokes that he became a part of the cyber industry before the industry was even called cybersecurity, but behind the joke lies the truth that cyber looked extremely different back then. However, no matter how much time passes, Richard is still used to the odd confused looks that come from saying he’s a CISO. People misunderstand the role, Richard explains, but at least more people than ever before understand the importance of cybersecurity.

“There were a lot of other things that you had to talk about, you had to evangelize a lot coming into this [industry] because a lot of the cybersecurity industry was brand new. People were moving around and trying to figure these things out and everybody struggled.”

 

How many times would you say you feel like you've had a new job or a new role being in the same role for over 10 years? 

Being a CISO has had its ups and downs during the 10 years Richard has spent in that role at Motorola, but the changes have been welcome and interesting. Every few years, the technology landscape changes, and with those changes in tech come massive changes in company ownership, leadership, and security. However, Richard is thankful that through these changes, his core team has stayed the same, giving him a trustworthy group to learn from.

“It's always changing, but at the same time, there are some static components. When I came on to Motorola 15 years ago and established teams, most of my team, except for a very small portion of people that retired or left, are still with me today.”

 

What are your thoughts and best practices for proactive cybersecurity?

Although “proactive cybersecurity” has become a buzzword we’re all paying attention to, Richard warns that most companies aren’t really being proactive with cybersecurity just yet. Instead, what the industry has shifted towards is prioritization. Understanding what’s important, prioritizing those aspects of a business, and knowing what you don’t have the resources to handle can make the security work you’re doing feel more proactive. 

“Why do I need to prioritize? Because you're getting more alerts than you have people to be able to handle it or technologies to be able to handle it in an automated way. So, you have to prioritize what's important.” 

 

What would you recommend people consider to extend their cybersecurity career life as long as you have?

After nearly four decades in the industry and over ten years at Motorola, Richard has been in cybersecurity longer than most modern-day practitioners. When asked about his secrets for an extended cybersecurity career, Richard reflects back on his advice around prioritization over “proactive cybersecurity”, and emphasizes the importance of community. Cybersecurity is a collaborative field, and practitioners have to stay open to learning together to succeed. 

“In the cybersecurity world, we will talk to our competitors and share what we're seeing. I think that community effort is one of the key things. You have to enjoy what you're doing, reach out and be collaborative with people. Don't be the security guy that people are scared of.”

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Links:

Keep up with our guest Richard Rushing on LinkedIn and Twitter

Learn more about Motorola Mobility on LinkedIn and the Motorola website

Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter

Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter

Purchase an HVS t-shirt at our shop

Continue the conversation by joining our Discord

Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio

Keeping Cyber Course Prices Equitable with Kenneth Ellington

Kenneth Ellington, the Senior Cybersecurity Consultant at EY and Founder of the Ellington Cyber Academy, achieves his goal of being on the Hacker Valley Studio this week. From working at Publix in college to becoming an online course instructor, Kenneth’s journey into the cyber industry has been heavily influenced by online educators like Chris and Ron. Kenneth covers barriers to entry for cyber, SOAR vs SIM, and how much further we need to go for representation in the industry.

Be sure to subscribe to Hacker Valley Studio, the premiere cybersecurity podcast for cybersecurity professionals.

 

Timecode Guide:

[00:00] Starting a cyber career at the Publix deli counter

[05:16] Fighting through introversion to become an online instructor

[11:02] Setting equitable & understandable prices for cyber courses

[15:54] Looking into the future of SOAR vs SIM to see what’s next

[19:27] Taking the chance on content creation as a new cyber professional

 

Sponsor Links:

Thank you to our sponsors Axonius and NetSPI for bringing this security podcast to life!

Life is complex. But it’s not about avoiding challenges or fearing failure. Just ask Simone Biles — the greatest gymnast of all time. Want to learn more about how Simone controls complexity? Watch her video at axonius.com/simone

For more than 2 decades, NetSPI has helped companies discover and remediate critical security issues through its platform-driven, human-delivered security test. NetSPI is much more than a pentesting company, bringing you the most comprehensive offensive security solutions. Visit netspi.com/HVM to learn more.

 

What areas do you feel confident in as a new teacher, and what do you still struggle to get your footing on? 

As someone newer to online teaching, having only done it for 2 years, Kenneth is confident in his communication skills, but still struggles with fully grasping new technology. On the bright side, Kenneth believes those technical skills come with time and practice, something he’s 100% willing to do. What helps him stand out as a strong teacher is something harder to learn— communication with others and de-escalating stressful situations for students. 

“I worked at Publix for four years in the deli, dealing with customers, and that forced me to develop those soft skills about how to talk to people and how to communicate and how to de-escalate situations. That's how I set myself apart.”

 

What are some of the things that you're thinking about when it comes to setting the pricing for your course content? 

No matter how his prices change or how skilled he becomes, Kenneth still believes in fair and equitable pricing for his course content. Considering his experience and expertise, Kenneth charges at least half of what I vendor might charge for similar content and knowledge. However, Kenneth doesn’t believe in thousands of dollars being spent on his courses, because he wants entry-level students like himself to be able to afford to learn.

“I'm very honest with myself, what my skill level is, and the value I bring towards it. Because I've been doing this for over two years, technically, I've gotten a pretty good gauge as to what people are willing to pay for and the value that I can bring.”

 

Do you have anything you’re looking to expand into with Ellington Academy? 

While SOAR and SIM are Ellington Academy's bread and butter, Kenneth is looking forward to continuing to expand his expertise and scale his content. A future upcoming goal Kenneth has is giving back to the country of Jamaica, where his family is originally from. Through providing courses or recruitment opportunities, he wants to bring cyber skills to everyone.

“From a legacy perspective, I want to leave a positive mark on this world, just to make it better than when I got here. One of my big goals, I don't know if it's gonna happen, but my family is from Jamaica, so I'm hoping I can maybe put ECA there someday.”

 

What advice would you give to a newbie in cybersecurity looking to start making content? 

Kenneth got his start at the Publix deli counter, and he understands that the beginning of someone’s cyber journey can look just like his— inexperienced but hungry for knowledge. For newcomers to the industry, Kenneth wants to reassure you that you’re never too young to teach or too old to learn. Take courses, expand your knowledge, and give back to people with less knowledge than you through accessible learning content of your own.  

“Take the opportunity to try to do something new because your knowledge is valuable, no matter how much or how little that you have. Everybody can learn something from everyone. I always try to help out however I can.”

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Links:

Keep up with our guest Kenneth Ellington on LinkedIn

Check out the Ellington Cyber Academy

Learn more about EY on LinkedIn and the EY website

Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter

Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter

Purchase an HVS t-shirt at our shop

Continue the conversation by joining our Discord

Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio

Sharing Cyber Outside of the Security Bubble with Lesley Carhart

Lesley Carhart, Director of Incident Response at Dragos, takes some time off mentoring cybersecurity practitioners, responding to OT incidents, and training in martial arts to hop on the mics this week. Named Hacker of the Year in 2020, Lesley’s impact on the industry stretches far and wide. As an incredible content creator for cybersecurity, Lesley advises listeners on how to find their niche and who to be willing to educate along the way.

Be sure to subscribe to Hacker Valley Studio, the premiere cybersecurity podcast for cybersecurity professionals.

 

Timecoded Guide:

[00:00] Giving back to the community through martial arts & cyber education

[06:13] Being excluded from the cyber industry & turning to content creation instead

[12:33] Comparing incident response in IT vs OT environments

[19:46] Dealing with post-COVID problems with the wrong OT systems online

[26:51] Finding your cyber niche & exploring education options within it

 

Sponsor Links:

Thank you to our sponsors Axonius and NetSPI for bringing this episode to life!

Life is complex. But it’s not about avoiding challenges or fearing failure. Just ask Simone Biles — the greatest gymnast of all time. Want to learn more about how Simone controls complexity? Watch her video at axonius.com/simone

For more than 2 decades, NetSPI has helped companies discover and remediate critical security issues through its platform-driven, human-delivered security test. NetSPI is much more than a pentesting company, bringing you the most comprehensive suite of offensive security solutions. Visit netspi.com/HVM to learn more.

 

What inspired you to start creating cybersecurity content?

Lesley’s cybersecurity content has vastly influenced and impacted many cyber practitioners in the industry, including Ron and Chris. Unfortunately, Lesley’s journey into content creation was inspired by the lack of mentorship they received from other professionals when they were starting out. Never wanting anyone to feel the way they did, Lesley created an online world of resources to warmly welcome and educate new practitioners.  

“It's not a really glamorous story. When I got into cybersecurity, I wanted to do digital forensics and nobody would help me, nobody would actually take me seriously and give me a shot. Everybody should have a chance to get into cybersecurity if it's something they want to do.”

 

How has teaching cyber to a general audience been appealing to you?

When not educating new cyber practitioners or tearing it up in the martial arts studio, Lesley likes to reach out to their community and give talks to audiences outside of typical tech and security groups. From churches to universities, Lesley loves meeting people outside of the cyber industry. These individuals always offer them a new perspective and a feeling of accomplishment for showing someone something new. 

“It's enjoyable to me to find other people out there who want to learn about an entirely new topic and expose themselves to its problems and how it impacts society and things like that. I appreciate that. Cybersecurity is important and it impacts everything around us all the time.”

 

In your world, where does incident response start, and where does it stop?

Like many of cyber’s most complicated concepts, the answer to where incident response starts and ends is subjective to certain resources and elements of an organization. Lesley explains that incident response has to be planned and that the planning process has to involve when to declare an incident and when to close the said incident. Without proper planning in advance, an organization is at risk for a crisis that could’ve been responded to quickly turning into an out-of-control attack. 

“There's no perfect defense against an incident, everybody's vulnerable. You do your best to mitigate and avoid having a cybersecurity incident, but there's only so much you can do. Eventually, you have to assume that you're gonna have an incident.”

 

What piece of advice do you have for anyone looking to share more knowledge and make the cyber industry better? 

Although everything in cybersecurity can seem daunting, expansive, and interesting to everyone, Lesley’s recommendation to new practitioners is to find a niche in cyber and stick to it for a while. Finding a niche doesn’t have to be permanent, but Lesley believes that niche will help you carve out extensive knowledge worth sharing and creating content around. When you discover that niche, don’t be afraid to reach out to other industry experts along the way.

“Pick an area and then find mentorship in that and try to focus for a couple of years on a particular area. You can always change your mind later on, just like degrees, just like training programs, but it's going to help you a lot to focus for a little while.”

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Links:

Keep up with our guest Lesley Carhart on LinkedIn, Twitter, and their blog

Learn more about Dragos, Inc on LinkedIn and the Dragos website

Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter

Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter

Purchase Hacker Valley swag at our shop

Continue the conversation by joining our Discord

Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio